Monday, July 31, 2006

If you had any questions before about Isreal, they have been answered

In my limited reading about the last days and the battle of Armageddon, I had read that all nations would gather against Israel, and that at the last minute, the lord would come and deliver them. Because of this scriptural understanding, I had always, at least in the back of my mind, had support or at least sympathy for Israel.

My question has always been "What would make the world come up against Isreal?"

Well, I think that question has been answered. Granted, I don't think that the time for the second coming is that close. There are far too many things to happen, but what is happening between Isreal and Hezbullah right now makes me wonder what is in the future for Isreal.

The Israeli justice minister Haim Ramon announced on Israeli army radio Thursday that "all those in south Lebanon are terrorists who are related in some way to Hezbullah."


Apparently though, on Israel’s list of terrorists are children. Sunday morning they bombed a building that housed sleeping civilians, mostly children. Of the 54 deaths, most of them were children.

Why didn't they evacuate the area? Why didn't they leave; partly because Isreal is blowing up many of the vehicles that are leaving? What exactly do they expect the refugees to do?


Well, if the world teams up against Isreal at this point, I can hardly blame them. It also saddens me that the U.S. isn't doing much to help bring about a cease-fire. More and more innocents are dying while we wait for a cease-fire that will be "permanent" and "lasting". I personally don't understand why a temporary cease-fire will be detrimental to a long term resolution.


Michael said...

"I personally don't understand why a temporary cease-fire will be detrimental to a long term resolution."

Ian, I am sorry but help me understand what would be a long-term resolution between Hezzebolah and Israel? In your response, please be practical and remember that Hezzebolah has NO OTHER PURPOSE THAN THE DESTRUCTION OF ISRAEL. They will not compromise on this.

Also, in your response, please do not pass the buck onto other parties (such as "I don't know what the answer is but that is what the diplomats are supposed to do"). I really would like a specific, practical solution from you that will be accepted by both sides without making Hezzebolah compromise its ultimate purpose (because they won't).

NOTE: Nothing personal but it drives me crazy when bloggers bring up complaints and don't propose practical solutions.

Ian said...

I don't have the right answer to this problem, no one does. But, I am willing to bet that Israel's wholesale slaughter of the people in Lebanon is NOT the answer.

Obviously the problem goes deeper than this, but two kidnapped solders does NOT warrant the death of hundreds of innocents.

Imagine if a terrorist group from the US began kidnapping Mexican soldiers. How happy would you be if Mexico started bombing the US, where your children would be potential targets?

I think that in this case, Israel made the wrong choice, and children are being killed over it.

I would like to know the justification for why these attacks are the RIGHT thing for Israel to do?

dkgoodman said...

It's not just the kidnap of the Israeli soldiers, it's also that Hisbollah continues to kill Israelis by any means necessary, including Israeli children and families in markets and schoolbuses.

Suppose Hizbollah captured the house across the street from YOU and starting firing rockets at your house and anybody who tried to leave your house. Do you fire back, or just sit in your house waiting to die? If you fire back, what about the children in the house with the Hizbollah? What if it's not just you in your house but your entire family and several other families as well? Do you let them get killed by rockets because you don't want to fire back?

It's a terrible situation with no good answers, but every time you let terrorists get away with their despicable acts it only makes them stronger and allows them to continue terrorizing people.

Ian said...

Yes, I see your point dk, but attacking terrorism the way they are is not effective. The don't even know where these guys are. They are attacking "possible" terrorist targets without much investigation obviously.

It's like a teacher who gets hit in the back of the head with a spit ball, and then punishing everyone in the class for doing it. It doesn't make sense.

These are lives we are talking about. Problems cannot be solved solely by firing rockets or shooting guns, as much as these guys would like that to be true. What they are going to start is a much bigger problem. The war can only escalate.

How is Israel differnt from those they fight if they use the same tactics?

dkgoodman said...

You don't bring a knife to a gun fight. If the other side fights dirty, you're going to have to lower your standards or call it quits.

The Israelis, as far as I can tell, aren't just lobbing rockets willy-nilly. They've pretty much left alone the Christian neighborhoods and other non-aggressive neighborhoods. What they're doing is destroying the ability of Hizbollah to move more weapons and fighters into the country (by destroying the airport and bridges, etc), targeting known caches of weapons (even when the Hizbollah cowardly place them in civilian areas and in people's houses, mosques or hospitals), and targeting with cluster bombs any site firing rockets. There's a web site that's shown photos of the Hizbollah, dressed like civilians, with a rocket launcher on a truck to be fired from a high-density civilian area.

Yes, there are lots of civilian casualties, but what is Israel supposed to do? Let Hizbollah fire rockets at them and not respond?

I may be wrong, but I doubt Israel attacks targets just because they *might* have a terrorist there. I've read many reports that the Hizbollah control the media in Lebanon. Reporters aren't allowed to roam freely, or take pictures or investigate without a Hizbollah press officer there to make sure the media sees only what Hizbollah wants them to see. Hizbollah always spins things to sound better in their favor. If one of their bomb makers blows up, they blame the Israelis. Any gestures that Israel makes towards peace, like pulling out of a neighborhood, is called a victory for Hizbollah and an incentive to fight harder.

It sucks. But what's the alternative?

Ian said...

I'm not opposed to military action against Hezbullah. What they are doing is wrong. However, I don't think that Isreal is going about it in the right way. Since they murdered all those children, they have actually slowed down a little bit an have become more meticulous in their targets. That's a step in the right direction.

Unfortunately, this war will not solve anything. For every woman or child that was killed by Isreals attack, another terrorist is born. If they are not too careful, they will have the same thing that we have in Iraq, a terrorist haven. Terrorists are importing themselves for a shot at the U.S.

The honest truth is that many if not most in Isreal (and some fundamentalist christians) would love to see all of Islam wiped off the map, and would fully support another crusade to accomplish that task. Many, if not most of Islam would love to see Isreal wiped out. Because of this, I don't see any resolution anytime this century.

You can be sure about one thing though, wholesale slaughter does more harm than it does good.

I still don't buy into the rhetoric that a cease fire = a win for Hezbullah. A cease fire = less people dead. Now that Hezbullah and Lebanon know that Isreal is serious, I personally think that a cease fire would give them a chance to at least attempt a diplomatic solution. Even if a solution is slim, an attempt at one is preferable over what is happening right now.

That's my two cents for what it's worth. I am no expert though.

Ryan said...

Maybe someone can enlighten me here but the last time I heard the PM of Lebanon speak, he claimed that he was incapable of getting Hezbollah out of Lebanon and asked for the world's help.

So here comes Israel, a rather mighty fighting force, with the destruction of Hezbollah as priority #1 on their agenda... why is the PM not mobilizing Lebanese troops to work with Israel in:

A. Evacuating civilians to create a battleground free of potential collateral damage
B. Painting Hezbollah targets from the inside to help focus Israeli strikes.

It seems to me that the Lebanese authority's inaction is leading to the slaughter of their people

Ian said...

You have a good point ryan. Why indeed do we not hear of the Lebanese government helping to oust these guys? If they truly were against Hezbullah, they would do something.

I think they can only be responsible for part of the blame. It's foolish to try to place blame on one party. I don't think anyone in this fight is clean.

I just wanted to point out that actions like this (wether you personally believe they are right or not) are what will gather the world against Israel, if the popular interpretation of the events in the last days is correct.

Stephen said...

Hezzebolah has NO OTHER PURPOSE than to run as the one political party in the country dedicated to avoiding corruption. That is a powerful thing they have done.

BTW, those who oppose the party, e.g. the Christians in North Beriut, are getting hit just as hard as everyone else.

It is a mess, a real mess.

If I had a solution, I'd share it.

"when bloggers bring up complaints and don't propose practical solutions" it illustrates their humanity and their humility.

Sometimes we merely mourn with those who mourn.